I recently had the pleasure of sitting down with WWE Superstar Aleister Black for an extensive, 36-minute conversation. We caught up just after his major main event victory over Randy Orton to discuss his “Corruptor” persona, his deep ties to the hardcore and metal scenes, and his private training laboratory, Dark Arts.
Hardcore Roots and the Intersection of Culture
Rob Pasbani: Rob here from The Stunner with WWE Superstar Aleister Black. Aleister, thank you so much for talking to us. We are the intersection of pop culture and pro wrestling. So, I have to ask, what have you been listening to lately?
Aleister Black: “Converge just dropped a new album and it has literally been on repeat. Terror just dropped a new single; it has been on repeat. Coroner dropped a new single; it was good. Guilt Trip did a new one. There has been so much good music as of late and I like that because sometimes I feel like it is far and in between. I have got such an eclectic musical style that almost every two days something new comes out. I do not always spend the time really digging into it because the schedule is so hectic sometimes that I just plug and play things, go about my workout, go about my travel, and I do not even really pay attention to some of it. But those things immediately sprung to mind, especially the Converge album. Love Is Not Enough is, my god dude, what a record.”
Rob Pasbani: I cannot think of a Converge record in the last two decades that has not blown my mind. They are the most consistent band in hardcore.
Aleister Black: “Honestly, in my opinion, the ones that were maybe not perceived as critically well as some of the others, I still found fascinating because it shows a different caliber of how incredible these guys are with their musical styles. You take a song like ‘Coral Blue,’ which is completely different from anything they have really ever done before. They are very known for very loud and chaotic hardcore, and then all of a sudden they come out with a song like ‘Coral Blue’ and you are just like, ‘Wow, this is so different, right?’ And I still think it is absolutely phenomenal.”
A Fruitful Year Back in WWE
Rob Pasbani: We are approaching about a year since your return to WWE. How do you think your first year back has gone so far?
Aleister Black: “First and foremost, I consider it a massive success. A lot more work, a lot more things that I have done inside the ring and outside the ring. I like being busy; once I feel like I am not busy, I feel like I am not doing something right. The amount of work I have had within WWE has been a lot, which is good. Several main events, headlining several Smackdown episodes, merchandise sales, commercials, various interviews, and then obviously as of recently, working the main event with Randy Orton and beating him. I cannot really complain when it comes to that.
Can we do better? We can always do better. Even if I would have been at the highest of highest of echelons, I would still find things of myself that I would be like, ‘I can improve on this or I can improve on that.’ So, I consider it to be a very good year, very fruitful, very exciting, and very diverse. A lot of changes, a lot of new things. I was happy that I was able to bring over something that I was working on at the end of my first run when we did the Dark Father. This whole corrupting people character that was going to start with the Dark Father and obviously had its life in AEW for a minute, bringing that over to WWE, I feel like it has a lot more legs. With Randy, it has not even seeded as much as it is going to, which is a really cool prospect for me. I should be very happy and excited to be doing what I am doing. It feels very good.”
Working with Zelina Vega
Rob Pasbani: Your character has evolved a lot in the last year with more supernatural elements like the feud with Damien Priest and using the fire. I am also enjoying the expansion of pairing up with Zelina Vega, who is your wife. During interviews around SummerSlam, you suggested you were not looking to pair up, but it happened anyway. Was that something management suggested?
Aleister Black: “Initially the idea for that was also at the end of my initial stint with WWE. It was something that we filmed some vignettes for as a test run asked for by creative. They wanted to see it, we came up with some suggestions, we did some takes, and they really liked it. It was eventually always going to venture that way regardless of anything. Coming back, it was coined initially in a way brought to me. As time progressed, I think the company saw that there was an opening there and they wanted to venture to it. Then they presented it back to me and they asked me for some ideas and we kind of started mixing some stuff in. I think it came at a good time and allowed for yet another part of that character to manifest. My wife has been a manager and a wrestler, but she has never been a manager wrestler within this type of setting. For her, there are a lot of windows and rooms to venture out and test some grounds. It is a different and exciting thing for both of us.”
Rob Pasbani: When you guys are traveling, what is on the car radio? I know in previous interviews you mentioned she has a Nu-Metal bent, and previously you mentioned her relatives are into Watain and Mayhem.
Aleister Black: “It is a lot of my music, but obviously because I am the one driving. But she’ll sprinkle her personal flavor to it as well. She is a very big fan of the early 2000s music style still. Aaliyah is obviously a big fan favorite, so she will mix that. I do not mind any of these musicians. It is not something that I wake up to and put on the radio, but it is something that she has a deep connection with. Nowadays she is very much into a lot of K-pop stuff. That is unfortunately not really my forte, but it does not have to be. It is something that she really enjoys and she is really passionate about, and I enjoy watching her really enjoy that. I find it fascinating how that culture has been absorbed in today’s westernized world. It is kind of inescapable.”
The Aesthetic and “Cool” Culture
Rob Pasbani: It is also interesting how K-pop and J-pop are influenced by early 2000s boy band culture and we are eating it up again. Rock culture is seeping into the mainstream too. It is crazy to see this aesthetic being in H&M now.
Aleister Black: “I cannot say that I really like that part of it because for years that was the part where I remember in school you are being bullied for wearing your Cannibal Corpse shirts. You are part of that alternative lifestyle. As is everything, eventually it moved its way to the front of the lines and it is being revered and celebrated. Such is life. But I always think people can enjoy what they can enjoy. If anything, it allows for a deeper and broader interest in a lot of these things and allows people that perhaps never really would have dove into the more subgenre style of music to go, ‘Hey, where is that logo from?’ It has its good sides and its bad sides. It is definitely something that I remember when it first started happening going, ‘Oh, so now it is cool, huh?’
I do not want to be gatekeeping, but for years you are being looked at sideways and now popular fashion brands have death and black metal logos on their stuff and half the people do not even know where it is from. I remember when Kanye was wearing a Cradle of Filth shirt. I thought, ‘Yo, that is different.’ People try to find individualism, and they find something far off the map for them, and then it becomes popularized.”
Entrance Music and the Road to WrestleMania
Rob Pasbani: I was so excited when you returned that you got your original theme back, Root of All Evil featuring Incendiary. Was that a conversation you had?
Aleister Black: “No, it was a no-brainer. That was not even a conversation. That was just what we are doing. I would not want to have it any other way. Even if after six months we would have changed everything about it, you have to come back within the setting of recognition because if we would have not done that, it might have been even more difficult for WWE fans to relate, connect, and understand all of what I am in that regard.”
Rob Pasbani: If you got a singles match at WrestleMania and you could have any artist play you out, who would it be?
Aleister Black: “Obviously I would have to get Brandon from Incendiary to do the vocals because that is a no-brainer. I can name a bunch of bands, but truthfully, I do not think it would make sense because every band is revered for their style of music. If I say Amenra and then Amenra plays that song, that would not make any sense because that is not the way Amenra plays music. I think it would be cool to relive that moment with Code Orange. But if I were to have carte blanche, Amerna, Behmoth or Watain would be the picks because they capture a magnitude. With a band like Amenra, you are watching art whilst listening to music. It is a very eclectic and philosophical feeling when you watch those guys perform; it is a very high level of artistry.”
Rob Pasbani: Although I think Watain or Behemoth with WWE production could be incredible.
Aleister Black: “Man, I would have got Terror in a big pit in the Allegiant Stadium! Hell yeah. Back when I used to wrestle in Germany for Westside Extreme Wrestling, I used to come out to Unearth, we used to come out to ‘Zombie Autopilot,’ and one of the things that the crowd does is just start moshing. It was really cool. They dove into each other, swinging fists and spin kicks. Maybe when there is ever a titanic shift in my presentation, that is what I will do. And I hope one day Terror can play me out.”
The Philosophy of the Villain
Rob Pasbani: Where do you look for inspiration nowadays?
Aleister Black: “Still music, videos, interviews, backgrounds in bands, books, artwork. There are paintings that I have that give me ideas, even more Renaissance style paintings because a lot of them can be very grim and dark. I own a couple and sometimes I just sit and look at them and I find little things, colors, or details that make their way into my gear or give me an idea for things to say. This run, I really made it a point that I want this character to be more humanized, but still have a way of speaking that is perceived as social commentary.
The flip side now, the way I perceive the world in its darkest ways for the last 10 years, is that everybody is hyper-critical of themselves and presents one thing but is the other. That became a big part of what I wanted to translate. You go to social media, you cannot open a topic without people jumping down each other’s throats. They just keep faking the funk, doubling down, tripling down, even when they are proven completely wrong. People are not as good as they think they are.
In the concept of the character, it is a lot more like I am not necessarily corrupting you; I am just making you what you were always supposed to be. You are fighting your own nature. Everybody is corrupted to the core. Instead of constantly trying to pretend that we are not because we have moral high grounds, indulge into it. That is who you are. Stop fighting it. You are this negative person. I see it every day. That became my social commentary. It manifested with the Dark Father and found its rooting. If you look back at the thing between me and Cody, that played into the idea of this All-American, blue-eyed, blond-haired good guy, and no one likes that anymore. It is the same with Randy Orton. For the character, it is like, you put on the coats of being the father and the husband, but those are facades. The real you is in there. I am trying to save you.
Evil people do not think they are inherently evil. There is not a person who walks out of bed going, ‘What chaos can I obtain today?’ No, you come out with convictions. That is what makes a villain great; he is convinced of his cause and does not act maliciously for the sake of it. In WWE, I have to throw in a layer that is a little bit more on the nose or else it would not translate. It still has to be a little campy and obvious because that is how things translate. But there are people who go, ‘Boy, is he evil? Because he is kind of right.’ Does that make him evil, or ahead of his time, or misunderstood? Characters are interesting when there are multiple directions.”
Watching Brody KING and the House of Black
Rob Pasbani: How is it watching from the outside seeing your friend Brody King move in AEW?
Aleister Black: “That is the one thing that I said to him. This was not a done up and walk away kind of thing. It was a very thorough conversation between me, Nate [Brody], and Buddy. They were in agreement; we felt that we were hitting a wall constantly. I said to him, ‘I think once I go one direction, you will eventually see a big explosion in regards to how you are being perceived.’ I am glad that we see that now because the whole reason why I initially told Tony [Khan, AEW owner] about Brody was because I already saw that. I knew how good he could be. I had to tone him down a little bit initially because he is a big human being. I would say, ‘I would like for you to be more effective. One elbow from you equals dude on the ground and not getting back up.’ He picked up on that tremendously. He is a good dude. I have a lot of love for him. We fight like brothers, and I am very happy for him.”
The Dark Arts Laboratory
Rob Pasbani: What inspired you to open the Dark Arts gym? Is it a wrestling school?
Aleister Black: “I do not consider it a wrestling school anymore. A while ago, I withdrew from the idea of really wanting to train people and I made it more about it being a performance center for me and my wife with a group of training partners. In doing so, people that train with us become better and better. I told them I was straying away from the concept of being a school and it would be a complete training center for me and my wife, but they were welcome to come train with me. All of them said, ‘No, that is what we want. We want to get better that way.’
One of the people, and I cannot name who because that will be announced relatively soon, one of the people that I have been training with just got signed by WWE, which is really exciting. She picked up on everything so quickly. My training involves a lot of MMA style drills, Muay Thai stuff, grappling, catch wrestling, and of course pro wrestling. Because my stuff is such a blend of everything, it is not for everybody. It functions as a laboratory. You get to try things out, change things, mold and shape your style into what you want it to be. I have got a really great bunch of kids that are training with me and they are monsters.”
Tattoos and Saudi Arabia
Rob Pasbani: There were rumors that you flew to Saudi Arabia for the Royal Rumble and that perhaps you have some tattoos that might be too offensive. Is there any truth to this?
Aleister Black: “No, that is not true. I was supposed to be in the Royal Rumble, but then they were going to start myself and Randy, and I felt like if we are going to do that story and start in the Royal Rumble, it is just going to get snowed under. We do not want it to just go to waste for them to just be two guys that are like being dumped out. Why do we not save it for the weeks to come?
The initial setup of Saudi Arabia, my tattoos did come into question. That is absolute fact. In the initial setting, it was definitely like, ‘Well, we do not know how they are going to respond.’ I am talking five years ago when it all first started. That was a conversation I had with Vince. But that is no longer the case. The last time I was in the ring there, even though the segment was small, I was still presented on TV and my arms were exposed. The side of my head is always exposed. You could still see a lot of my tattoos. No, that was not the reason why. It was a very smart decision because looking back at what me and Randy did, it got its own life on Smackdown in the main event. Millions and millions of views. I do not know if it would have been able to exist in that way if we would have done it at the Royal Rumble. I appreciate you taking the time to clarify. It is good to know that fans care.”
Aleister Black can be seen every Friday on Smackdown on the USA Network. Be sure to check out BLXCKMASS Clothing.
